Ethanol Free gas and the EcoBoost
01-11-2012, 11:34 AM
#31
Better OUT then IN
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OP: Just an observation...
I've read many posts regarding the EB about MPGs increasing after certain mileage milestones... like 5,000 and 10,000 miles. My buddy with an EB just passed the 10,000 mile milestone and commented that he noticed better mpgs right away.
Understand that I'm NOT disputing your claims at all - it goes without saying that "real" gas will net you better MPGs - all I'm saying is that the gains you've seen may not be entirely due to "real" gas. Mileage milestones may be a factor as well and if true, should be included in the overall claims.
These EBs are AWESOME!
I've read many posts regarding the EB about MPGs increasing after certain mileage milestones... like 5,000 and 10,000 miles. My buddy with an EB just passed the 10,000 mile milestone and commented that he noticed better mpgs right away.
Understand that I'm NOT disputing your claims at all - it goes without saying that "real" gas will net you better MPGs - all I'm saying is that the gains you've seen may not be entirely due to "real" gas. Mileage milestones may be a factor as well and if true, should be included in the overall claims.
These EBs are AWESOME!
Last edited by justjimmy; 01-11-2012 at 11:39 AM. Reason: grammer correction
01-11-2012, 11:56 AM
#33
Senior Member
Originally Posted by Olly
Not everything was cheaper 5-6 years ago - was your house? (if your by the Bakken then probably)
Not to get off topic and hijack the thread, but prices on corn exceeding 100% in 6 years....that doesn't meet the rate of inflation my friend. I agree about the manufacturing process as well consuming more energy than it produces. However, when you plant a field of corn for ethanol, what land/crop is used to feed the populace, or feed the meat we eat? Subsidies?
There are many other factors as well, such as droughts and flood conditions and many other factors that cause increase in prices. Housing isn't really a good example, those prices have been over inflated for years and was due for a correction, how long did you really think that would last, Haha! Blaming g it on ethanol is silly and uninformed.
01-11-2012, 01:12 PM
#34
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Ethanol & MPG -Many factors affect,most important is gas quality-
Well you could have had 30% reduction in mpg with ethanol, but I'm glad you did not.
When MPG drop is higher than average/expected it is almost always due to improper blending of ethanol resulting in excess amounts (very high %)...
This also can also happen when E10 gas phase separates (P/S)=
When water saturation limit reached, most of ethanol drops to bottom of tank with water - Resulting in a very high concentration (60-95% ethanol) at bottom of tank- Running this would drop MPG greatly and likely damage your engine too -
P/S (water-contamination=W/C) is unusual with an auto, unless gas already W/C at time of purchase (more common than it should be) -
-This phenomenon (P/S W/C of E10 gas type) occurs most often in boats, lawn equipment, and other engine types that have a vented fuel system and/or store E10 gas for prolonged periods of time.
-----------------------
In response to some of the other comments here:
E10 is very controversial for so many reasons - Very limited benefits, often sold contaminated, has dramatically increased (unnecessary) gas-caused engine damage/problems over past 5-7 years, and many other negatives... Especially due to it being an unstable fuel type (short shelf life), ability to attract and absorb water rapidly (hygroscopic), and probably worst but not least, all the political controversy (scams).
It's well known that corn and grains could never be the sole source for ethanol (especially if we used ethanol as E85 in all vehicles, which has the benefit of replacing petroleum) - We don't have enough open farm land to accomplish this.
Add to this, the pollution created by ethanol manufacturing plants and transporting ethanol, fertilizers, etc. and the negatives of ethanol as a fuel far outweigh any benefits.
For over a decade we've been promised cellulosic and other "non-farm sources" of ethanol (highly subsidized, but still not available in any markets) -
Conclusion= Ethanol needs to go away.
Than maybe the U.S. will refocus and finally develop a domestically produced, alternative energy source/type that is beneficial, so that we can become energy independent, while also protecting our environment (and pocketbooks/engines).
- -A huge task, but very possible...Which needs to start with getting the ethanol lobbyists out of Washington and away from the politicians, local, state and federal.
- Only the public (voters) will be able to accomplish this.
Get involved, sign petitions (such as ours) which protect consumers/engine owners/environment etc. and especially ASAP contact your local leaders to reclaim availability of E0 fuel, for those who need, require or prefer this conventional fuel type.
When MPG drop is higher than average/expected it is almost always due to improper blending of ethanol resulting in excess amounts (very high %)...
This also can also happen when E10 gas phase separates (P/S)=
When water saturation limit reached, most of ethanol drops to bottom of tank with water - Resulting in a very high concentration (60-95% ethanol) at bottom of tank- Running this would drop MPG greatly and likely damage your engine too -
P/S (water-contamination=W/C) is unusual with an auto, unless gas already W/C at time of purchase (more common than it should be) -
-This phenomenon (P/S W/C of E10 gas type) occurs most often in boats, lawn equipment, and other engine types that have a vented fuel system and/or store E10 gas for prolonged periods of time.
-----------------------
In response to some of the other comments here:
E10 is very controversial for so many reasons - Very limited benefits, often sold contaminated, has dramatically increased (unnecessary) gas-caused engine damage/problems over past 5-7 years, and many other negatives... Especially due to it being an unstable fuel type (short shelf life), ability to attract and absorb water rapidly (hygroscopic), and probably worst but not least, all the political controversy (scams).
It's well known that corn and grains could never be the sole source for ethanol (especially if we used ethanol as E85 in all vehicles, which has the benefit of replacing petroleum) - We don't have enough open farm land to accomplish this.
Add to this, the pollution created by ethanol manufacturing plants and transporting ethanol, fertilizers, etc. and the negatives of ethanol as a fuel far outweigh any benefits.
For over a decade we've been promised cellulosic and other "non-farm sources" of ethanol (highly subsidized, but still not available in any markets) -
Conclusion= Ethanol needs to go away.
Than maybe the U.S. will refocus and finally develop a domestically produced, alternative energy source/type that is beneficial, so that we can become energy independent, while also protecting our environment (and pocketbooks/engines).
- -A huge task, but very possible...Which needs to start with getting the ethanol lobbyists out of Washington and away from the politicians, local, state and federal.
- Only the public (voters) will be able to accomplish this.
Get involved, sign petitions (such as ours) which protect consumers/engine owners/environment etc. and especially ASAP contact your local leaders to reclaim availability of E0 fuel, for those who need, require or prefer this conventional fuel type.
01-11-2012, 03:20 PM
#35
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Don't forget that corn yields are at an all time high and going up every year and, most of what they use for ethanol is contaminated and unfit for consumption.
There are many other factors as well, such as droughts and flood conditions and many other factors that cause increase in prices. Housing isn't really a good example, those prices have been over inflated for years and was due for a correction, how long did you really think that would last, Haha! Blaming g it on ethanol is silly and uninformed.
There are many other factors as well, such as droughts and flood conditions and many other factors that cause increase in prices. Housing isn't really a good example, those prices have been over inflated for years and was due for a correction, how long did you really think that would last, Haha! Blaming g it on ethanol is silly and uninformed.
Common sense isn't uninformed my friend..... you can't produce food when you're using the same land for ethanol.....
Do some research- between 97 and 06 bushel prices were pretty steady. The only time bushel prices were way up was in the 70's....and guess what happened? Ethenol happened......thanks for playing
01-11-2012, 03:22 PM
#36
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Don't forget that corn yields are at an all time high and going up every year and, most of what they use for ethanol is contaminated and unfit for consumption.
There are many other factors as well, such as droughts and flood conditions and many other factors that cause increase in prices. Housing isn't really a good example, those prices have been over inflated for years and was due for a correction, how long did you really think that would last, Haha! Blaming g it on ethanol is silly and uninformed.
There are many other factors as well, such as droughts and flood conditions and many other factors that cause increase in prices. Housing isn't really a good example, those prices have been over inflated for years and was due for a correction, how long did you really think that would last, Haha! Blaming g it on ethanol is silly and uninformed.
Common sense isn't uninformed my friend..... you can't produce food when you're using the same land for ethanol.....
Do some research- between 97 and 06 bushel prices were pretty steady. The only time bushel prices were way up was in the 70's....and guess what happened? Ethanol and a crappy energy policy happened......thanks for playing
01-11-2012, 07:15 PM
#37
Senior Member
Originally Posted by Olly
Common sense isn't uninformed my friend..... you can't produce food when you're using the same land for ethanol.....
Do some research- between 97 and 06 bushel prices were pretty steady. The only time bushel prices were way up was in the 70's....and guess what happened? Ethanol and a crappy energy policy happened......thanks for playing
Edit: pretty sure I have the % of food left over number wrong, but its been a while since I read it and I'm on phone now so I can't really check it, however my point still stands even without getting any feed back from ethanol production.
Last edited by SultanGris; 01-11-2012 at 11:02 PM.
01-11-2012, 07:58 PM
#38
crockett56
With new drilling tech. and new oil and nat. gas fields that can tapped right here and
in canada,(via. pipeline) that You never here about on TV . We would not even need
to be talking ethanol!
in canada,(via. pipeline) that You never here about on TV . We would not even need
to be talking ethanol!
01-11-2012, 10:32 PM
#39
Senior Member
My truck is going to be getting a rest. I can not see any more because the ops avitar made me go blind. Have to be taken to the eye doc cause my eyes poped out, I think they are laying on the key board. Had to get grand daughter to type this.
01-11-2012, 11:34 PM
#40
16K miles, and my average mileage hasn't changed much; in fact it is worse now than at 10K (I'm assuming its because all the stations are running winter fuel with a higher percentage of ethanol).
However, I wish I had the choice to run ethanol, which I view as a poor choice for a fuel because it is not ENERGY POSITIVE. What I mean by this is the fact that it takes more energy to grow, transport, and refine than the amount of energy it releases when burned. In reality we are using MORE fossil fuels by using ethanol, rather than less because ethanol production could not be support solely on the energy it produces--it is subsidized with another energy source.
Anyway, its late, I'm tired, and I don't know if any of what I just wrote makes sense--just do some research and you will see plant matter is a poor fuel for anything besides animals.
However, I wish I had the choice to run ethanol, which I view as a poor choice for a fuel because it is not ENERGY POSITIVE. What I mean by this is the fact that it takes more energy to grow, transport, and refine than the amount of energy it releases when burned. In reality we are using MORE fossil fuels by using ethanol, rather than less because ethanol production could not be support solely on the energy it produces--it is subsidized with another energy source.
Anyway, its late, I'm tired, and I don't know if any of what I just wrote makes sense--just do some research and you will see plant matter is a poor fuel for anything besides animals.
